This article was posted 09/09/2008 and is most likely outdated.

2008 NEC Questions and Answers September
 

 

Topic - NEC Questions
Subject - 2008 NEC Questions and Answers September

September 9, 2008
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NEC Questions Based on the 2008 NEC

September

 

 

Here is the follow up to yesterday’s newsletter. This includes all of the answers to the questions sent yesterday so you can see how you did.

 

By Mike Holt for EC&M Magazine

 

Q1. I have a 1200A 480V panel that has a working space of 3 ½ feet. The engineer says 7 feet is required. Is he correct?

A1. Maybe. The working space, which is measured from the enclosure front, must not be less than the distances contained in Table 110.26(A)(1). If you have grounded metal parts on the other side of the working space, you would need 3 ½ ft. If you have equipment 1200A or more, over 6 ft. wide, you also must have an entrance to/egress from the working space at each end of the working space [110.26(C)(2)]. If you have double the required work space (7 ft. in this instance) a single entrance/egress is allowed, if it is located at least the required working space (3 ½ ft.) from the equipment [110.26(C)(2)(b)]. 

 

Q2. What do I do with the little bare aluminum wire in hospital grade AC cable?

A2. The internal aluminum bonding strip within the cable serves no electrical purpose once it is outside the cable, and can be cut off, but many electricians use it to secure the anti-short bushing to the cable.

 

Q3. Does a motor disconnect require a three foot working space?

A3. Equipment that may need examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized must have sufficient working space in accordance with Table 110.26(A)(1). The phrase “while energized” is the root of many debates. So, as always, check with the AHJ to see what equipment he/she believes needs a clear working space.

 

Q4. Are GFCI receptacles required in a walk-in freezer in a kitchen? 

A4. All 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles installed in an area with a sink and permanent facilities for food preparation and cooking [Article 100], even those that don’t supply the countertop surface, must be GFCI protected [210.8(B)(2)]. Many people would say that a walk-in freezer is not part of the kitchen “area”, but it is best to check with the AHJ.

 

Q5. How do you size the ground wire for parallel circuits?

A5. When circuit conductors are run in parallel [310.4], an equipment grounding conductor must be installed with each parallel conductor set and it must be sized in accordance with Table 250.122, based on the rating of the circuit overcurrent device [250.22(F)].

 

Q6. Do we have to add GFCI receptacles in our facility each time the code changes and requires more of them?

A6. No, the NEC is an installation standard, not a maintenance standard. When existing receptacles are replaced in locations where GFCI protection is currently required, however, the replacement receptacles must be GFCI protected [406.3(D)(2)].

 

Q7. Can a panel be installed in a bathroom?

A7. Maybe. Overcurrent devices must not be located in the bathrooms of dwelling units, or guest rooms or guest suites of hotels or motels [240.24(E)]. Also, the service disconnecting means must not be located in a bathroom, even in commercial or industrial facilities [230.70(A)(2)].

 

Q8. What is the maximum height that a safety switch can be installed?

A8. Circuit breakers and fuses must be readily accessible, and they must be installed so the center of the grip of the operating handle of the fuse switch or circuit breaker, when in its highest position, isn’t more than 6 ft 7 in. above the floor or working platform, unless the installation is for [240.24(A)]:

(1) Busways, as provided in 368.17(C).

(2) Supplementary overcurrent devices [240.10].

(3) For overcurrent devices, as described in 225.40 and 230.92.

(4) Overcurrent devices located next to equipment can be mounted above 6 ft 7 in., if accessible by portable means [404.8(A) Ex 2].

 

Q9. We heard that you can't enter conduit on the sides of a handy box, can you show us where it states that in the NEC?

A9. The NEC contains no such requirement.

 

Q10. Do the conduit fill requirements apply to a raceway containing telephone wires?

A10. Yes. Where communications cables are installed in a Chapter 3 wiring method, the raceway must be installed in accordance with Chapter 3 [800.100]. The 3xx.22 sections of all the raceway articles require compliance with the values listed in Table 1, Chapter 9.

 

Q11. Our utility requires a nonfused disconnect upstream of the meter and service disconnect for certain services. Is this legal?

A11. Yes, meter disconnect switches that have a short-circuit current rating equal to or more than the available short-circuit current can be installed ahead of the service disconnecting means. A meter disconnect switch must be capable of interrupting the load served [230.82(3)].

 

Author’s Comment: Electric utilities often require a meter disconnect switch for 277/480V services to enhance safety for utility personnel when they install or remove a meter.

 

Q12. Where in the NEC does it indicate how far away from a bathtub or shower a switch needs to be? 

A12. Switches can be located next to, but not within, a bathtub, hydromassage bathtub, or shower space [404.4, 680.70, and 680.72].

 

 

 

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Comments
  • On a Multii conductor Circuits sharing a Neutral and ground each on a 20 amp circuit is there any special requirement if one circuit trips must the other 2 breakers also trip? and if these are GFI are there any special requirements?

    Patrick Hall
    Reply to this comment
  • Reply from: Mike Holt   
    Please post your question on the Code Forum at www.MikeHolt.com.
    Reply to Mike Holt


  • Interesting as always Mike! Keep up the great work.

    Mike Pagano
    Reply to this comment

  • Q5 can be interpreted as an equipment ground conductor for each phase in a 3 phase circuit where each phase uses two parallel conductors. It depends on how you interpret "set". Good questions. I could not answer some of them without reference.

    Bob
    Reply to this comment

  • When making up panel boards and using tie wraps. Is there a limit to the amount of conductors you can put under one tie wrap? If yes, is it correlative with conduit size?

    Javier Casillas
    Reply to this comment

  • Q1. I have a 1200A 480V panel that has a working space of 3 ½ feet. The engineer says 7 feet is required. Is he correct?

    I have been working on a lot of WalMarts and Sam\'s clubs the Load center is a prebuilt, shipped in, room. The mains are from 1000 to 1400amps minimum and there is 4 feet from side to side and 8 the other way. The door opens in, and there is only one.

    Doesn\'t this violate the code also?

    Head Dragon Kid
    Reply to this comment

  • Nice job as always.

    The conduit fill requirements of Chapter 3 are not required in Article 800. The last sentence of 800.112 states "The raceway fill tables of Chapter 3 and Chapter 9 shall not apply." Beware of exceeding the limits though, as you may have extreme difficulty fitting those cables into raceways with fill exceeding 40%.

    Gil Martin
    Reply to this comment

  • Mike Answer #5 has an error the is no article 250.22f

    Paul E Keller CBO
    Reply to this comment

  • Question number 4 is stated as follows: Q4. Are GFCI receptacles required in a walk-in freezer in a kitchen? The answer to this question as stated would be, "no" because the code does not require that receptacles be installed in walk in freezers. However, if receptacles are to be installed in the freezer they would need to be GFCI.

    David Wiles
    Reply to this comment

  • The answer to Question 10 on telephone wire in conduit incorrectly refers to NEC 800.100. This should be 800.110, which specifically says that raceway fill tables of chapter 3 and chapter 9 do not apply.

    g porter
    Reply to this comment

  • Great questions, Mike.

    In answer # 7, "Maybe" - when would it be allowed ?

    Brad Darnell
    Reply to this comment

  • The reference in #5 is to 250.122(F), but it makes a difference if the parallel conductors are for a feeder or for service conductors.

    Vic
    Reply to this comment

  • Your email is loaded with lots of links which do not serve the purpose of the subject. I suggest to eliminate all links which are not part of the main subject of the email.

    V/R

    Paul V. Matei
    Reply to this comment

  • Thanks for the questions, Mike, they help keep us up to date and on our toes.

    On Q. 5. Perhaps the wording should be "parallel conductors". Parallel circuits, it seems to me, would be the same as multiple circuits. 250.122(C), 250.4(A) (5) and 250.4(B) *4)

    On Q. 10. 2008 code 800.10 states,"The raceway fill tables of Chapter 3 and Chapter 9 shall not apply." am I missing something?

    Wes Gerrans
    Reply to this comment

  • Hello,

    I am kind of new to electrical construction, what is the difference between single phase and three phase?

    Thanks

    JB

    Juan Barahona
    Reply to this comment
  • Reply from: G   

    Juan- Fase singular puede tener uno pierna caliente y uno neutral se llama "fase singular, 2-alambre. O, Dos piernas caliente y uno neutral, se llama "fase singular, 3-alambre." O, Dos piernas caliente y sin neutral, se llama "fase singular, 2-alambre" Fase Tres (3-phase), normalmente puedes tener qualquera de los dos: (3) piernas caliente con uno neutral se llama "fase tres, 4-alambre" O, (3) piernas SIN neutral, se llama "fase tres, 3 alambre. Energia de los ulitidades es usualmente fabricado y transmitido mientras que, fase singular es usualmente derivado de "3-fase", directamente o de las transformas. todo bien? G


    Reply to G


  • we have a project at work i heard it has a 30 amp G.F.C.I. is their such thing as a 30amp G.F.C.I. please let me know i don't think so.reply to Jose

    jose a guillen
    Reply to this comment

  • Re: Q 11-doesn't that disconnect switch ahead of the meter have to be capable of opening & closing into a possible fault?....also, this is just a "disconnect", not necessarily THE service disconnect, so, if this unfused switch is placed ahead of the meter, then a second, fused SERVICE disconnect switrch also have to be installed somewhere...

    Wyatt
    Reply to this comment

  • I really would love to take the chance to tell u guys & galls great questions & answers, it keeps us on our toes with learning new things and gives us diffrent ideas with approach our job, and possibly save a few bucks on are jobs. For example where to install a GFCI and where not to install one, that could make a big diffrence on a large job.

    Marji Electric Corp.
    Reply to this comment

  • How does the code address an apprentice (5th Year) with 8 years of work experience, working on a job by hiomself. . I understand the wording is direct supervision by a journeyman. Must the journeyman be at his side all the time. What are the variables. If a journeyman was on the job in the morning, laid out the work then had to leave the job for an emergency and the boss returned 4 hours later to assist the apprentice and finish the work & check to see that the work was done satisfactorily, would this be a violation and something an inspector would want to enforce. What is the latitude of this situation if any?

    Mike Brennan
    Reply to this comment

  • I would like to know if it is acceptable to tie wrap a separate ground on top of 3/c paralleling cables in ladder tray. Each 3/c#500 set would have it's own ground and there would be a cable space in between each multi-conductor cable in the tray. Also, is there a code reference to show that this is an acceptable layout in a cable tray.

    Janice
    Reply to this comment


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