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Author Information Topic:   Health Care Facilities
Member

   
Name: John Lutz
Email: jwlutzjr@aol.com
Location: Texas
Title: Electrician
In Trade Since: 1975
Registered: Jan 2002
Total Posts: 1

posted January 23, 2002 at 08:59 PM       Edit/Delete Message
We are wiring a nursing home using type mc cable.Under what classification does a nursing home fall under,Patient care area or General care area? If it is Gen.care do we have to apply art. 517-13 (a) excep. no. 1.I read a very fine line in the definitions. Thank you.

IP: 152.163.207.192

unregistered posted January 23, 2002 at 11:58 PM           Edit/Delete Message
"Patient Care Area. Any portion of a health care facility wherein patients are intended to be examined or treated. Areas of a health care facility in which patient care is administered are classified as general care areas or critical care areas, either of which may be classified as a wet location. The governing body of the facility designates these areas in accordance with the type of patient care anticipated and with the following definitions of the area classification.
FPN:Business offices, corridors, lounges, day rooms, dining rooms, or similar areas typically are not classified as patient care areas.

General Care Areas. Patient bedrooms, examining rooms, treatment rooms, clinics, and similar areas in which it is intended that the patient will come in contact with ordinary appliances such as a nurse call system, electrical beds, examining lamps, telephone, and entertainment devices. In such areas, it may also be intended that patients be connected to electromedical devices (such as heating pads, electrocardiographs, drainage pumps, monitors, otoscopes, ophthalmoscopes, intravenous lines, etc.).

The definition of patient care area applies to hospitals as well as patient care areas in outpatient facilities. A patient bed location in a nursing home can be considered a patient care area if a person is examined or treated in that location. However, it excludes such areas as laundry rooms, boiler rooms, and utility areas, which, although routinely wet, are not patient care areas. The governing body of the health care facility may elect to include such areas as hydrotherapy areas, dialysis laboratories, and certain wet laboratories under this definition. Lavatories or bathrooms within a health care facility are not intended to be classified as wet locations. For infection control purposes, many patient and treatment areas have a sink for hand washing, which is not intended to be a wet location either."
2002 NEC Handbook

1. The governing body of the facility designates these areas
2. A patient bed location in a nursing home can be considered a patient care area if a person is examined or treated in that location

IP: 12.90.99.244

Member

   
Name: Don Ganiere
Email: resqcapt19@aol.com
Location: Illinois
Title: Electrician
In Trade Since: 1973
Registered: Jan 2002
Total Posts: 1061

posted January 24, 2002 at 09:33 AM       Edit/Delete Message
Please note that if 517-13 applies, you can't use MC cable of the interlocking armor type. The only types of MC cable that can be used are of the smooth or corrugated metallic sheath type. These are the only types where the metallic sheath is listed as an EGC as required by 517-13.
Don(resqcapt19)

IP: 64.133.97.147

Member

   
Name: Robert e. Shaffer
Email: bobatmob@aol.com
Location: Alabama
Title: Consultant
In Trade Since: 1964
Registered: Oct 2001
Total Posts: 346

posted January 24, 2002 at 12:20 PM       Edit/Delete Message
Section 517-13(a) applies to the branch circuits in the areas used for patient care
and is not limited to patient rooms.
Exception 1 permits the use of listed cable types in lieu of metal raceway. This cable type is identified in 250-118 as an acceptable grounding path. You still are required to install a grounding conductor as required by 517-3b
Patient Care Area has 3 subsections.
a. General Care
b. Critical Care
c. Wet Locations

[This message has been edited by bobatmob@aol.com (edited January 24, 2002).]

IP: 205.188.198.172

Member

   
Name: Don Ganiere
Email: resqcapt19@aol.com
Location: Illinois
Title: Electrician
In Trade Since: 1973
Registered: Jan 2002
Total Posts: 1061

posted January 24, 2002 at 01:01 PM       Edit/Delete Message
Robert,
quote:
This cable type is identified in 250-118 as an acceptable grounding path.

Are you saying that it is ok to use MC cable in these areas?
Don(resqcapt19)

IP: 64.133.97.147

Member

   
Name: Robert e. Shaffer
Email: bobatmob@aol.com
Location: Alabama
Title: Consultant
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Total Posts: 346

posted January 24, 2002 at 01:19 PM       Edit/Delete Message
Don, I was trying to say that
Exception 1 permits certian listed cable types to be used in lieu of metal raceway only where the cable type is specifically identified in 250-118 as an acceptable grounding return path.
Does this clear this up? Thanks for the question.

IP: 205.188.198.172

Member

   
Name: Don Ganiere
Email: resqcapt19@aol.com
Location: Illinois
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Total Posts: 1061

posted January 24, 2002 at 01:29 PM       Edit/Delete Message
Robert,
There is no interlocking armor type MC cable on the market that has the sheath by itself listed as an EGC. 517 requires redundant EGCs. The only MC cable that will meet the rules in 517 is the type with a smooth or corrugated continuous sheath provided that the sheath is listed for use as an EGC without an internal grounding conductor. The intelocking armor type of MC cable cannot be used in the areas where redundant grounding is required.
Don(resqcapt19)

IP: 64.133.97.147

Member

   
Name: Robert e. Shaffer
Email: bobatmob@aol.com
Location: Alabama
Title: Consultant
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Total Posts: 346

posted January 24, 2002 at 02:19 PM       Edit/Delete Message
Don,
I'm not advocation any type method. All I'm saying is that exception 1 says that if you do not use metal raceway, then the cable used must be identified as an acceptable
ground return path. 250-118 lists these type
of methods.

IP: 152.163.195.212

Member

   
Name: Don Ganiere
Email: resqcapt19@aol.com
Location: Illinois
Title: Electrician
In Trade Since: 1973
Registered: Jan 2002
Total Posts: 1061

posted January 24, 2002 at 03:06 PM       Edit/Delete Message
Robert,
What I am trying to say that even though MC cable is in the list in 250-118 it is not acceptable for use where Article 517 requires the sheath to be an EGC unless it is of the solid sheath type.
Don(resqcapt19)

IP: 64.133.97.147

Member

   
Name: Robert e. Shaffer
Email: bobatmob@aol.com
Location: Alabama
Title: Consultant
In Trade Since: 1964
Registered: Oct 2001
Total Posts: 346

posted January 24, 2002 at 04:15 PM       Edit/Delete Message
Don,
Section 517-13b states that what ever method is used it must meet 250-118. This article
singles out MC cable saying that it shall have an outer metal armor or sheath that is identified as acceptable grounding return path. Are you saying that there is not an MC cable that meets those standards?

IP: 152.163.195.212

Member

   
Name: Don Ganiere
Email: resqcapt19@aol.com
Location: Illinois
Title: Electrician
In Trade Since: 1973
Registered: Jan 2002
Total Posts: 1061

posted January 24, 2002 at 04:33 PM       Edit/Delete Message
Yes, I am saying that most MC cables do not meet the requirements of 517. The only MC cables that have a sheath suitable for use as an EGC are those that are of the smooth or corrugated sheath type, and even some of these cables use a combination of the metallic sheath and an internal conductor as the EGC. The only cables that are permitted for the installation in question are those where the external metallic sheath is in itself a listed EGC. A cable that uses a combination of the metallic sheath and an internal conductor as the EGC is not permitted for this application. I've never even seen any non-interlocking sheathed MC cable other than at a trade show. It is not very common and is very stiff, expensive and hard to work with. If you want to use a metallic sheathed cable for Article 517 installations you need to use type AC cable that has an internal EGC. The interlocking armor of the AC cable has a shorting strip to short out the convolutions of the interlocking armor sheath and this sheath is listed in itself as an EGC.
Don(resqcapt19)

IP: 64.133.97.147

Member

   
Name: Robert e. Shaffer
Email: bobatmob@aol.com
Location: Alabama
Title: Consultant
In Trade Since: 1964
Registered: Oct 2001
Total Posts: 346

posted January 24, 2002 at 05:09 PM       Edit/Delete Message
Don
Thanks for the information

IP: 64.12.101.164

Member

   
Name:
Email: alaroo54@hotmail.com
Location: Massachusetts
Title: Electrician
In Trade Since: 1972
Registered: Jan 2001
Total Posts: 40

posted January 24, 2002 at 06:06 PM       Edit/Delete Message
The emergency circuits for this area "must" be installed in pipe, ac cable is ok if it is for the normal power.

IP: 24.218.86.141

Member

   
Name: Ron Bethea
Email: bethea2@aol.com
Location: Tennessee
Title: Inspector
In Trade Since: 1985
Registered: Jan 2002
Total Posts: 426

posted January 24, 2002 at 07:08 PM       Edit/Delete Message
The way to tell if an MC cable sheathing is "itself" identified as an equipment grounding path is by looking at the equipment grounding conductor included with the cable. If only one insulated equipment grounding conductor is provided in the cable assembly, it will be identified with a yellow stripe or otherwise marked as an isolated ground. The only MC cables that are identified for this purpose are smooth and corrugated tube types that are extruded in a continuous length. If two equipment grounding conductors are provided, or an unmarked green equipment grounding conductor are provided, the sheathing is not an acceptable grounding path.

IP: 152.163.206.183

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